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101094-expert-riding-skill-made-me-sad
Content ---- ---- ---- You could argue that anything is "unnecessary for regular play". What's your point? It gives an in-game benefit, and for the cost, that benefit is extremely underwhelming. | |} ---- ---- Good thing you're not required to have it. | |} ---- Same thing: you can argue that anything is "not required to have". What's your point? | |} ---- ---- It is a QoL upgrade. It doesn't make you a better raider or PvPer. | |} ---- ---- * Mostly anything. Madda can think of a few required things for Wildstar. Like a keyboard and a mouse! But alas, OP has buyer's remorse. As a person that has the riding skill, Madda can confirm that it won't make you go as fast as a 100% mount in WoW, as many people including the OP (which hopefully isn't you) think it does. Madda thinks having a mount with the basic riding skill counts as "required", but many people will have different opinions. Keep in mind that just because an upgrade is available doesn't mean it's required for you to get it. Madda never upgraded to epic flying in WoW until Mists because of the price alone. So as the lovely Lanky said; | |} ---- That makes no sense. Just because something is QoL, doesn't mean it cannot be made worth the money. | |} ---- You missed the point here. I didn't say that it was required to get the Expert Riding Skill. Neither did the OP. Noone said it wasn't a QoL upgrade. Noone said it should make you a better raider or PvPer. Stop derailing the thread please. edit: Let me try and clarify here. OP is not about "Expert Riding skill is required, and therefore should be good." OP is about "Expert Riding skill costs 80p, but doesn't give a benefit worth paying that much for." | |} ---- And your reply to my post has nothing to do with my post in the first place. I never said that it can't be "made worth the money". I was replying directly to one thing. | |} ---- ---- You were the one asking "what's your point". | |} ---- Worth is all in the eye of the beholder. It is worth it if someone buys it, otherwise they wouldn't buy it. Could it be jazzed up a bit? Sure. Is 50g for an AMP reset 'worth it'. Well, to some it is, and others it isn't. | |} ---- Madda gave Madda's point though, as you asked. Madda suggests rereading Madda's post. | |} ---- Speaking of which, you didn't even answer it; you didn't explain how bringing up that it's "not required to have" is relevant. I'll assume then that you agree that whether or not it's "required" is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the OP. It sounds like you also agree that whether or not it's required is irrelevant to the OP. As I said, let's try and keep things on topic here. edit: DING DING DING! See, this is relevant to the OP. | |} ---- I'm soooooo glad I did not take that sip of coffee before getting to this line. That would have been hot coffee out the nose, all over the monitor, nothing but 'Net. | |} ---- ---- So you were explaining Madda's point (which had nothing to do with the topic)? It seemed you were defending the "not required, not important" mentality. Sorry, if I misunderstood. | |} ---- To be brutally honest, at least on the server I'm on, CREDD has been fluctuating between 4p and 5p each... which means that's the equivalent of 16-20 months worth... aka: a year and a half to a year and three quarters... almost two years. The double-edged sword nature of platinum in this game is bothering... I constantly feel like a consumer in a high-end retail store having second-thoughts/anxiety about a purchase, the whole, "do I really go out on a limb and blow this much on this... or... do I use it towards gas fill-ups, or perhaps a few smaller items that can act as gifts for friends, etc". Even for smaller items, like unlocking bank slots... last bank slot if I recall is 5p -- I find myself asking myself, "hrm, one more bank-slot for a bag, or another free month of gameplay". :ph34r: *ponder* Just because there might be easy ways to obtain plat, doesn't mean it's not still tedious, obnoxious, and overly grindy to do so. :huh: #JustSaying | |} ---- But it is on relevant. People are explaining why the skill isn't 100% required to progress with the game as well agreeing that it was a horrible price tag, and you seem to be keeping your stance of ignoring the point while also looking oddly familiar to a certain somebody. Madda knows it was a bad money sink, but plat is easy to get, thankfully. It shouldn't be hard for the OP to get his back. When he does, Madda thinks we all can expect another thread of why the Strain hoverboard costs so much. | |} ---- I agree. I only just purchased the mount speed increase, the one for 50g, and as I was zipping (yeah, right) along after purchase I looked over at my husband and said: "Hey, hon, look; I just paid 50g to go the same speed!" XD I know, it is a bit faster, but it isn't much, and I refuse to purchase the 80p one because of how so many say it's ridiculously underwhelming. For the price, yeah, you should be roaring along. No, it isn't necessary for game play or progression, but for God's sake, if you are dropping 80p for something it had better damn well be good! | |} ---- ^ This is the TLDR version of my post. Also overlooked is that while pleasantly surprised that the mount vendor lists it for 76p (yay! reputation has a use!), it still charges you 80p. | |} ---- edit: clarity lol I'm not ignoring it. I'm specifically saying that it has nothing to do with the OP. Which it doesn't. It doesn't matter if the skill is 100% required to progress or not. OP has nothing to do with that. Yeah it's not required...so what? OP still makes a valid point, and it sounds like you agree. | |} ---- Agreed... what the other two are trying to say is, they expect to fully be-able to hijack and takeover a thread, morph/transform it more into their own point or some other point, and from then on the thread then revolve around what they managed to debase it into. :mellow: (Thread hijacking/derailing seems to be a popular pass-time on the forums -- #WhiteKnightsUnite?) | |} ---- This exactly. And I think we've gotten away from that. The whole issue is that for what it costs, it is a very underwhelming upgrade. No one is saying it is necessary. Actually, most of us are saying the opposite. We're saying it's not worth it to even bother with it. The point is that is shouldn't be that way. It should feel special. You should really feel like you bought something good with your 80p. It's a very minor upgrade in its current state. And that's what makes people sad. | |} ---- Unfortunately, since no meaningful conversation is being made, Madda will have to stop replying to you until you come up with a proper response to Madda's point. Not exactly. Madda and a few other people's point still remain. OP talks about a riding skill increase not worth the money. A point is made that the upgrade is optional. People get upset and reply saying that it's irrelevant (somehow). | |} ---- ---- If you honestly can't see how this: and this: are two separate, unrelated things, then please stop posting in this thread :( | |} ---- ---- Please see Madda's previous post. | |} ---- The two is not completely unrelated. Person 1: $100,000 for an Audi R8 is not worth it. Person 2: Audi R8 is priced for a luxury car. Then the 2 people can go back and forth repeat their individual lines indefinitely. Because person 1 doesn't realize that it is a luxury and not meant to be "cost effective". Thus sees what person 2 says as completely off topic. Edited July 24, 2014 by Karamethien | |} ---- ---- See, I don't see how riding a reject from The Thing is considered "luxury" | |} ---- Why in the world are you having an internet debate with somebody who refers to themselves in the third person? Will be funny to check back in a few months and the only people playing this game are the ones who refer to themselves in the third person or pretend to be a Chua. | |} ---- Person 1 & 2 should both be intelligent individuals and realize that if you drop 100k+ you should get that much in quality and craftsmanship or it is truly not worth the money. That is something everyone should be able to agree on. if you give X it is really super awesome and nice to get the same value as X. we can agree on this i hope as it is common sense. If however person 1 feels they need that much luxury in their life and wants to pay that price. Person 2 certainly may feel that it may be atrociously priced to pay that much for luxury and would prefer other QoL things then that price tag. That is a fair argument. However that argument needs to be in a different thread, because that is highly subjective and opinionated to the persons feelings, wants, etc etc. The main point is... That this upgrade, Whether you feel it is worth the money or not and whether you feel it is useful to you or not. that is your own personal opinion of that product!!! You should hopefully still be able to agree that if you/someone else did pay so much money you/that someone would hope you get a quality product for your time and money spent. | |} ---- In order for this analogy to work, you have to define what "luxury" means in Wildstar, and if in fact the Expert Riding Skill is a "luxury" purchase. If your definition of "luxury" is "not required to proceed", then almost every purchase in the game falls under that, so... you're essentially saying that for most items in the game, it doesn't matter if the price doesn't reflect the in-game benefit. edit: my (and most people's) definition of luxury is "provides no in-game benefit". Which means costumes and dyes are luxury. And it also means that the strain board is luxury, because it doesn't do anything different that any of the cheaper hover-boards do, it just looks different. But it also means that the Expert Riding Skill is NOT luxury. | |} ---- Having something that looks better and goes a bit faster. | |} ---- Looks better, yes, luxury. Goes a bit faster, no, NOT luxury. Because that's an in-game benefit. | |} ---- Well, I was comparing to the Audi R8 which also goes a bit faster. | |} ---- facepalm I said define what "luxury" means in Wildstar. It says it right there in the post you quoted. | |} ---- ---- Because it's generally acceptable to have exorbitant prices for luxury items. It's generally NOT acceptable to have exorbitant prices on items you need and/or will help you play the game in some way. So you see, it matters a lot if it's luxury. | |} ---- How dare you. Madda is not a filthy Chua. Olivar and his chua friends decided to do what Madda does and they're more popular now. Now Madda's here, braving the General Forums. | |} ---- In relation to the analogy. /facepalm right back at you. But OK, for Wildstar: Offers no tangible benefit in a Dungeon or Raid setting. | |} ---- Luxury is things that are exorbitantly priced that you really don't need to progress. You don't need an Audi R8 to get to work. A 12k Hyundai is just as good - though not nearly as fast. Is that 50p crafted weapon with 20 more AP on the AH a luxury? absolutely, because 20 Ap won't make or break anything. Is that 80p upgrade that makes your mount another 20% faster a luxury? absolutely, because 20% won't make or break anything. Is eating that 20 silver food a luxury? absolutely, because the 6 grit and 120 shield bonus won't make or break anything. There are people out there that believes they need a 100k car, and can lament why their car can't go 0 to 60 in 3.8 seconds. But it doesn't take away the fact that the product is not priced to be cost effective. Is a Hermes bag really worth 17k in materials and craftsmanship? Some says yes. I personally think so. But there are tons of people out there who doesn't. It doesn't make either camp correct or incorrect - because worth is a personal judgement. What isn't in dispute is that the price for said bag isn't meant to be cost effective nor is it priced to be accessible. Edited July 24, 2014 by Karamethien | |} ---- you haven't answered the question: what does "luxury" mean in Wildstar? | |} ---- OK then, how about we make: vendor items (including medishots/gear/food/etc.) rep vendor AMPs housing plugs and housing plug repairs all mounts all cost 250p? I assume you would be ok with this since these are things that you "really don't need to progress". | |} ---- Why not? If you consider AMPs in the same level as 20% speed boost on a mount, then sure. There are things such as common sense, but if you want to dive off the deep end then go for it. But housing IS a luxury. It is completely optional and not related to progression. What Carbine wanted to do is to make it accessible to everyone. Which is why repair cost are what they are. If they decided to make housing an activity meant only for those who don't mind farming and grinding for weeks then they would have made it xxx plats. Which is why Expert Riding cost 80p. Because they wanted it to only be accessible to people who can accumulate that much money. | |} ---- ---- ---- Because that would break various aspects of the game, that's why not. But you see my point: what is "needed to progress" means different things to different people, and is therefore subjective...so using it as a definition for what's luxury and what isn't is useless. So try coming up with a definition that isn't subjective. Here's a hint: most people already have one. | |} ---- How will it break the game? Do you need house for any progression? It is a subgame - an completely optional part. Don't confuse Carbine's decision that "Housing should be accessible to everyone" as "Housing is not a luxury" | |} ---- ---- Can you imagine if basic equipment and AMPs from vendors actually cost dozens of plat each? How can you not see that would be terrible for the game? | |} ---- Your definition assumes everyone only cares about dungeons and raids. We know that's obviously not true; that's a terrible definition. | |} ---- Alright. Any activity where you need to deal or heal damage. I think it's true that everyone cares about that. | |} ---- I didn't say it would make it a better game. If the various PvP and PvE elements are designed with people to use those AMPs then it is no longer a luxury - because it is required for progression. But if they are not designed for their use in mind then it by all means becomes a luxury. In the same sense that PvP and PvE are not designed to require you to eat Food to boost your stats so you can pass them. Thus Food is a luxury for those who want that extra bit of marginal improvement. The moment Carbine design the encounters to assume that people are eating food then it would cease to be a luxury. Casing point is "Trigger Finger" many spellslinger consider it a "necessity" and moan and cry about it being 50p on the AH. Is having Trigger Finger good for your damage? I think most would agree that it does. Is it an unfair advantage for those with Trigger Finger vs Those without? Maybe, I don't play Spellslinger so I don't visit their sub forums and thus not versed in the importance of trigger finger. Is it necessary for them to progress? I am not sure. I am not sure if Spellslinger needs trigger finger to maintain their tier in damage in comparison to other classes. I am simply not versed in the subject. Assuming they do not - then it becomes a luxury. If they must have trigger finger to remain competitive with other classes - then it no longer is a luxury. In fact if having Trigger Finger makes them perform above all other classes in most/all circumstances then it is actually a imbalance and needs to be addressed. As far as I know nothing is designed in the game that actually requires housing. A player can ignore housing their entire careers. Aside from missing out on money making opportunities, and some nominal exp buff, their game play would not be impacted. Their performance in PvE and PvP elements would not be impacted in any way. Would they have less content? yes of course. Thus is why Carbine made it readily accessible. But it doesn't mean because it is accessible it is not by its nature an optional part of the game. | |} ---- ---- If you don't think it represents good value, don't buy it. Simple. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ^ As the OP, I fully endorse this message, nobody, anywhere should have to listen to Creed, let alone 16 months of it. /wrist. Seriously though, if you're reading this Carbine/NCSoft, do everyone a favor and at very least fix the listed vs. actual price (Vendor says 76p, buying actually costs 80p and yes I opened a ticket on it), add a KAZAMM, BAFF, ZING and a "You can blame this on TrembleHeart" when expert skill is first used from inventory. | |} ---- Let see if Carbine think the 20% speed boost from Expert Riding Skill is significant enough to adjust the cost. What I am guessing they will do is to make all the mounts the same speed in Daggerfall. The people shown using mounts are not using their hoverboards. Maybe because it was demo and they thought Wild Wild West posse looks better than a group of boarders. Maybe the mounts are picked up at the base - like those missions where you have to use in game vehicles. | |} ---- True. The vid doesn't really make it clear if mounts in the pvp area retain any buffed speed just a quick 'and mounts' it says. | |} ---- ---- The issue is not whether each person should decide for themselves to buy it or not. Saying "if you don't like something, don't buy it" is pretty meaningless...everyone already knows this. The issue is should the in-game benefit more accurately match the cost. | |} ---- ---- Then you agree that it would in fact be detrimental to the game, which means those types of items are "essential" to the gameplay, making them by definition not "luxury" items. See now you're introducing yet another definitinon: whether or not the game's content is designed for essential items. I'm not gonna bother with that, since it's outside the scope of this thread. Pretty much every level of equipment represents a "marginal improvement". Level 2 medium legs are a "marginal improvement" over level 1 medium legs. So by the "marginal improvement" argument, all equipment is luxury, and so price doesn't really matter at all. Which we know isn't true. Also your criteria of "is this item required to progress" breaks down as soon as you take PvP into account. Using your example of Trigger Fingers, if you played spellslinger you would know that Trigger Fingers is without a doubt a necessity. Even if you didn't, the price of Trigger Fingers should be a clear indicator that anyone who's playing DPS spellslinger is trying to get it. Trigger Fingers is a substantial DPS increase across the board for DPS spellslingers. And assuming equal skill and gear, a spellslinger with Trigger Fingers WILL beat (and out-DPS) a spellslinger that doesn't have it. You've already presented two different definitions of "luxury": whether or not content is designed with an item's use in mind whether or not an item is needed to remain competitive Your first one is trash; noone can know whether or not certain content is designed with a certain item's use in mind. Way too vague and subjective. Your second one is better, and more closely illustrates the OP's point. Someone who has Expert Riding Skill can move around the map faster. This means they can do quests faster, gather resources faster, do dailies faster, basically do everything faster. So it's clear that someone who has Expert Riding Skill has a measurable advantage over someone who doesn't. So you see, Expert Riding Skill isn't a luxury item; if you want to remain competitive at things that are affected by travel speed, you must have Expert Riding Skill. Now that we know Expert Riding Skill isn't a luxury item, we can begin to address the real issue at hand: It shouldn't really cost 80p, because the in-game benefit doesn't match the cost. | |} ---- ---- ---- That’s entirely subjective. Also, you have to keep in mind that what seems expensive now isn’t going to be expensive in a few months’ time. By Christmas we’ll probably be sending our level 1 alts 20p. | |} ---- I'd listen to it.... ...With Arms Wide Open. | |} ---- ---- ----